[Sampanviking]

A link to some CCTV footage posted on SDF. Well worth taking the time if only to watch a squad of Type 22's in action.

http://p.you.video.sina.com.cn/swf/quotePl...ame=www.fyjs.cn

Small, fast stealthy and surprisingly intimidating!

[Bill]

Here is the US response to PLAN's exercises!!

U.S. Tomahawk Missiles Deployed Near China Send Message

With bigger exercises!!

Quote

Two major military exercises involving the U.S. and its allies in the region are now under way... Some 20,000 personnel from 14 nations are involved in the biennial exercise, which includes missile drills and the sinking of three abandoned vessels playing the role of enemy ships. Nations joining the U.S. in what is billed as the world's largest-ever naval war game...

With more hardware!!

Quote

In all, the Chinese military awoke to find as many as 462 new Tomahawks deployed by the U.S. in its neighborhood. "There's been a decision to bolster our forces in the Pacific," says Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. "There is no doubt that China will stand up and take notice."

Holy shit...

[IchiNiSan]

yongke, on Jul 9 2010, 07:25 AM, said:

Holy shit...

Why be concerned about some cowboys who spent way too much energy in showing that they still have bigger guns with more pariahs?

Why deploy the largest naval exercise ever? Simply because they are the one who lacks the self-confidence right now.

[Sampanviking]

IchiNiSan, on Jul 9 2010, 01:03 AM, said:

Why be concerned about some cowboys who spent way too much energy in showing that they still have bigger guns with more pariahs?

Why deploy the largest naval exercise ever? Simply because they are the one who lacks the self-confidence right now.

Largely my own thoughts, but I am however not sanguine about the situation. The US and ROK is exercising, the PLA is/has been exercising, the Russians have assembled a massive force in the Sea of Japan for very complex Land Sea and Air exercises involving tens of thousands of military personnel.

Add to this China's recent revision of who started the Korean War (North Korea was the aggressor) I think we have a stark stand off regarding the peninsular.

The significance of Chinese Revision is that it labels North Korea as the aggressor because they started the fighting. This is significant as it is more properly a reflection of current Chinese policy to the crisis on the peninsular. Remember on the Cheonan incident, China said it "would blame whoever was responsible" a clear indication that they believe it was a friendly fire incident. Likewise new Chinese policy is to hold all parties in check from firing the first shot.
To Pyongyang, the message seems to be," If you start fighting we will not support you and even though we would seek to re-establish our buffer zone as best as we can, it would not be a final result to your liking"
To Washington and Seoul the message seems equally start "Initiate hostilities and the PLA will immediately intervene against you"

I have no doubt that while both Chinese and Russian exercises are being carried out independently, that there is a high degree of liaison and co-ordination between the two SCO allies in regard to how each would protect their own spheres, below and above the peninsular and as to who they would give support to each others operations.

It should also remind us that what today is termed exercises, would in only a few decades previously have been described as mobilisation.

[Roger604]

Sampanviking, on Jul 9 2010, 02:42 AM, said:

It should also remind us that what today is termed exercises, would in only a few decades previously have been described as mobilisation.

Ha ha.... I love this Sampan! This is the moment of truth for the Chinese civilization!! Time to fight for number one or die in a blaze of glory.

Don't you see how delectably ironic this is? President Obama offering an official state visit to President Hu at their last meeting. All the while the US is conducting a no-holds barred naval containment operation. Hint hint, Obama says, here is China's way to "save face" while being humiliated.

Fortunately, the nationalistic faction of the Chinese government appear to have the upper hand over the clannish, self-deluding cowards. China recently arrested and sentenced a US spy (Chinese American). Now the PLA is fully mobilizing. It has already shot down US recon aircraft in both Xinjiang and Zhejiang!

The truth is, China is militarily superior to the US in the East Asian theater. All it needs is a fighting spirit. If a leader like Mao Zedong were to assume power in the Chinese government, and wield as his sword the modern Chinese military, China would win a victory many times more dramatic than the great victory in Korea 50 years ago.

All we need is a spark to start the fire..... I eagerly await the beginning of economic warfare.



http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/chi...y_at_sea_1.html

Quote

The PLAN units that conducted drills in the East China Sea would be no match for the George Washington Strike Group, which includes two cruisers, seven destroyers, and an undisclosed number of submarines in addition to the nuclear carrier. But Beijing is less concerned with American firepower than with the willpower of the Obama administration. And against this soft target, Beijing seems to be winning. The White House has been downplaying the issue as Chinese rhetoric has ramped up.

A July 6 report in the state-owned People's Daily cited South Korean sources as saying the joint naval exercises would not be conducted until after there is action at the U.N. Security Council on the corvette sinking -- action which Beijing's veto could block. If it is true that the U.S. is waiting on the UNSC before it will sail its Navy into the international waters off Korea, then Washington is truly demonstrating a "show of weakness" that will do nothing to deter future aggressive actions by either North Korea or China.

[IchiNiSan]

Roger, actually I kinda agree that any nation should become one of the military superpower before they can focus on the economic development, same as for China. However, what many like you and others tend to forget is that the Chinese leadership at the end of the 70s knew very well the contribution of Mao Zedong's leadership in making China one of the military superpower. This military security was one of the main reasons why Deng Xiaoping (and successors) could focus "seemingly solely" on developing China into an economic superpower. Emphasis on "seemingly", as it would be just the perception to the world audience (and to the inhouse hawks) that China has only focused on the economy, and that the Leadership has grown weak because of economic successes. So don't ever think Beijing has forgotten the importance of the military power and the use of it.

In 1989 Deng Xiaoping re-affirmed to these Western powers that the leadership has Chinese balls to kick out any foreign policies influences on Chinese policies and authority, his appointed successors knew very well what is required to keep the Chinese pride and stability. And it has always been the PLA which benefited most from the miracle economic development, Deng and his appointed successors' strategies were partly in place to strengthen anything that Mao had left behind (except for the social disasters).

I know you don't believe in the asymmetric warfare strategy theories, but reality is that these strategies are playing a major role in this recent standoff again. Just yesterday China announced that our Foreign reserves is "not to be used as an alternative Nuclear weapon" http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-07...nt_10078685.htm

Quote

China's foreign exchange agency said Wednesday the country's $2.45 trillion reserves are not a "nuclear weapon" to control other nations and its vast holdings of US Treasury debt "should not be politicized."

But let's face it, this is a subtle warning to the White House of what is at stake, and effectively promoted the USD reserve as an economic nuclear weapon to wipe out the US Dollar empire. Of course, along with the impressive military power we are able to show them, it gives the White House "saving face" options to convince their "sponsors" that they rather should make sure that all these recent turmoil are to be written in the history books as "Largest naval exercises" and not as "the mobilization that caused the start of the end of the US Dollar empire".

You call Beijing clannish and selfish? IF that is the case, then Washington is 1 million times worse. So when Beijing strategies are out-playing & out-smarten Washington in all areas, Washington is just struggling to try to show the world that they are still the biggest. In my books, just someone who is struggling to regain self-confidence in the face of their new inevitable masters.

It would be near-sighted to call the leadership delusional traitors when for the past decades we have been only strengthening the whole country in a whole, in a much more amazing and awesome way than Mao Zedong could only have dreamed of. This is also why Deng Xiaoping with his grand vision should be the one credited to be the most important one in turning China into a self-ruling Prideful nation.

[IchiNiSan]

In addition to all these recent activities, Thursday is the unofficial "negotiation" behind CLOSED DOORS how to proceed from here on. Cards are drawn and put on the table.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2010-07...nt_10086686.htm

Quote

The UN Security Council is expected to meet behind closed doors late on Thursday to discuss the sinking of a Republic of Korea (ROK) ship, the United Nations announced.

[Sampanviking]

More good news

http://news.bbc.co.u...ic/10565560.stm

The US has blinked and while condemning the sinking and the loss of life, the resolution is not blaming anyone. I also read that it is a Presidential Declaration and not even a Resolution.

Lets see if tensions across the board start to relax now.

[Roger604]

IchiNiSan, on Jul 9 2010, 07:58 AM, said:

Roger, actually I kinda agree that any nation should become one of the military superpower before they can focus on the economic development, same as for China. However, what many like you and others tend to forget is that the Chinese leadership at the end of the 70s knew very well the contribution of Mao Zedong's leadership in making China one of the military superpower. This military security was one of the main reasons why Deng Xiaoping (and successors) could focus "seemingly solely" on developing China into an economic superpower. Emphasis on "seemingly", as it would be just the perception to the world audience (and to the inhouse hawks) that China has only focused on the economy, and that the Leadership has grown weak because of economic successes. So don't ever think Beijing has forgotten the importance of the military power and the use of it.

In 1989 Deng Xiaoping re-affirmed to these Western powers that the leadership has Chinese balls to kick out any foreign policies influences on Chinese policies and authority, his appointed successors knew very well what is required to keep the Chinese pride and stability. And it has always been the PLA which benefited most from the miracle economic development, Deng and his appointed successors' strategies were partly in place to strengthen anything that Mao had left behind (except for the social disasters).

As China's economy grows, it needs more and more resources to sustain itself. That means it must expand its strategic reach. Military presence is a necessary part of this. You cannot simply rely on diplomacy and deal-making to expand your strategic reach, because all the US needs to do is cut your lanes of commerce and then you're back in 1980 level standards in China.

Mao and Deng's achievements allowed China to economically grow to a 1980's level -- while retaining sovereignty as shown by its wars in the 80's. If China wants to go further enjoy a developed country standard of living, it can try to either market itself to the US as a slave race useful to keep around and exploit (i.e. surrender its sovereignty), or it can assert its sovereignty and force the US to give it strategic space.

I have no doubt that some Chinese (especially middle class and up) prefer to opt for the former -- selling its sovereignty at the highest possible price -- rather than fight against the US for dominance in Asia. This is precisely why the US grand strategy is a combination of "engagement" and "containment." It wants to exploit the greedy slave-mentality of many Chinese elites to turn the nation into a useful race of slaves.

[Roger604]

China is now prepared to counter the US carrier in the Yellow Sea with aggressive shadowing and mock combat with a serious risk of collision or live fire. This "commentary" has the tone of coming from highest PRC leadership. The hawks appear to be gaining the upper hand over the greedy, clannish appeasers.

Quote

Watch out for China-US tension at sea

The eventuality that Beijing has to prepare for is close at hand. The delayed US-South Korean naval exercise in the Yellow Sea is now slated for mid-July. According to media reports, a nuclear-powered US aircraft carrier has left its Japanese base and is headed for the drill area.

In their recent responses, several high-ranking Chinese navy officials have made it plain that China will not stay in "hands-off" mode as the drill gets underway. For that will make the US believe that China's defense circle on the sea is small, and, therefore, US fleets will be able to freely cruise over the Yellow Sea, East China Sea and South China Sea in the future.

Military experts have warned that if the joint drill really takes place off the western coast of South Korea, Chinese airplanes and warships will very likely go all the way out to closely watch the war game maneuvers. Within such proximity on not-so-clearly-marked international waters, any move that is considered hostile to the other side can willy-nilly trigger a rash reaction, which might escalate into the unexpected or the unforeseen.

One false move, one wrong interpretation, is all it would take for the best-planned exercises to go awry.

Wang Jisi, dean of the School of International Studies at Peking University, says he is most worried about another collision crisis like the one over the South China Sea in 2001, when a Chinese fighter jet crashed into a US spy plane.

The impact of a crisis on that scale would be tremendous, making any dispute over trade or the yuan's value between the two in recent years pale in comparison. Anti-US sentiment will be re-ignited among Chinese people despite the recent affirmations of warmth in the relationship, and a significant fan following in China for the charismatic US president Barack Obama.

With the growth of China's economic power, the country will definitely extend its defense capability to the high seas. The US, far from trying to contain this assertiveness, should face up to the reality, and facilitate the Chinese navy to be peacefully integrated into the international system. This is China's legitimate due, which it cannot be denied for long.

By the same token, China needs to be patient. The island chains in the western Pacific cannot block China from entering the open waters. But the country should move forward one step at a time, to show its confidence and to emphasize its goal of keeping peace.

The US has long been a naval superpower, and will be understandably uneasy about accepting the fact that China is a growing power and can no longer keep silent when US warships enter China's sphere of influence.

Since both sides lack experience of contact over the seas, the two countries should learn to get along with each other. First, the US must allow China space to explore. Second, the two navies need to increase exchanges to prevent further misunderstanding.

Tension is mounting over the US-South Korean joint exercise. Beijing and Washington still have time, and leeway, to desist from moving toward a possible conflict on the Yellow Sea.

http://opinion.globa...-07/550396.html

[Bill]

S.Korea says location of war games undecided

US might still blink first!

Quote

SEOUL ? South Korea and the United States are still deciding where to hold a joint naval exercise intended as a warning to North Korea, the defence ministry said Monday, after China protested at the drill.

The two allies are planning the exercise as a show of strength after blaming the North for the sinking of a South Korean warship in March, an incident that has sharply raised tensions on the peninsula.

The drill, originally set for last month in the Yellow Sea, was delayed until after the UN Security Council considered the sinking of the Cheonan, which cost the lives of 46 sailors.

In a statement on Friday, the council condemned the attack but did not specify who was to blame. The North denies involvement.
China, which resisted any condemnation of its ally the North, last week expressed "serious concerns" at the war games.
"We are firmly opposed to foreign military vessels engaging in activities that undermine China's security interests in the Yellow Sea or waters close to China," a foreign ministry spokesman said.

A Seoul defence ministry spokesman said South Korea and the US are "fine-tuning the timetable, scale and location" of the manoeuvres.
Yonhap news agency, quoting a government source, has said Seoul is considering moving the venue to its south or east coasts rather than the sensitive Yellow Sea.

North Korea has described the UN statement as a "great diplomatic victory" and reiterated conditional willingness to return to stalled international nuclear disarmament negotiations.

Analysts say it appears to be seeking a way out of the months-long confrontation over the sinking.

South Korea has also professed itself satisfied with the statement, but has said the North should apologise for the warship attack and show a commitment to denuclearisation.

The naval exercise is not intended to raise tensions but as a precaution against any future provocations by Pyongyang, said foreign ministry spokesman Kim Young-Sun.

Asked at a briefing if the UN statement marked closure of the warship incident, Kim said this hinged on the North's actions and attitude.

"Reflecting the seriousness of the Cheonan incident, we expect North Korea to respect the statement and to take more responsible actions towards international society."

[IchiNiSan]

Obviously the US has bent down and is not going into the Yellow sea anymore.

One interesting news for people to take notice off, and imo it definitely influenced the Americans a lot!

http://wallstreet.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/20...asury-holdings/

Unlike a few months ago, the news of China selling off those US junkbonds (non-AAA rating anymore). Don't underestimate a whopping 4% decline, that is relatively speaking a lot and it came in the month of May, when the Cheonan accusation was made with bombardie. It will be interesting to see the figures of June!

[IchiNiSan]

Roger604, on Jul 12 2010, 05:21 PM, said:

As China's economy grows, it needs more and more resources to sustain itself. That means it must expand its strategic reach. Military presence is a necessary part of this. You cannot simply rely on diplomacy and deal-making to expand your strategic reach, because all the US needs to do is cut your lanes of commerce and then you're back in 1980 level standards in China.

Mao and Deng's achievements allowed China to economically grow to a 1980's level -- while retaining sovereignty as shown by its wars in the 80's. If China wants to go further enjoy a developed country standard of living, it can try to either market itself to the US as a slave race useful to keep around and exploit (i.e. surrender its sovereignty), or it can assert its sovereignty and force the US to give it strategic space.

I have no doubt that some Chinese (especially middle class and up) prefer to opt for the former -- selling its sovereignty at the highest possible price -- rather than fight against the US for dominance in Asia. This is precisely why the US grand strategy is a combination of "engagement" and "containment." It wants to exploit the greedy slave-mentality of many Chinese elites to turn the nation into a useful race of slaves.

I totally agree that eventually a powerful military is one of the key factor in our development, and along with the worldwide Chinese economic interests our military should expand internationally as well. This include capabilities of reaching out to the furthest ends in land, sea, air and space. Actually in my opinion, what we should do is to make sure our nuclear deterrence capability is never to be under-estimated and it should be a real deterrence which gives people thrills of even thinking about touching us, instead of that, what we now see among our adversary's ranks that you will hear people say like "China has [b]only[b] 240 nukes without reliable and effective delivery systems blablabla". This is something that should be changed asap

Anyhow, however, what those short-term minded strategists in the US under-estimate and miss-judged (along with many Chinese/China observers) about China is that they believe that "containment" is a feasible strategy to take advantage of the screwed-up mentality of a minority of the Chinese population, who never have really seen the world [frogs in the well!]. The Chinese population (including leadership) is way to prideful about our Chinese civilization and culture to ever submit ourselves to foreigners ever again. This means that the US will never [at least not now] be able to have a really focussed strategy in stopping our development to the biggest country (economy and military) if the World! It is so weird to me that so many would under-estimate the Chinese pride embedded in our genes!

Also, don't ever under-estimate the importance and the growing crucial role of the non-traditional warfare tools which comes along the modern information technology age. Just this month we made one of the biggest step in history in reshaping the whole economic landscape by introducing our own sovereign country credit rating report! And apparently back in May we have shown Washington again who they should listen to, and see what happened? Just don't forget we are not living in the 20th or earlier centuries anymore, even though in the 21st century we still need to fight off pirates, but in our generation and beyond much more factors and tools should be taken into account in forming a full picture and strategy.

[Harley-One]

With deadly enemies surrounding us like an inescapable C-clamp, how we seems to insinuate that our once upon a time comrade and brother in arm is an aggressor when what they are doing, essentially, is no more but what we are doing -- namely attempting to reunify the country -- is starting to look, smell, and sound very very double standard. It's no wonder we don't have any frikends...

[IchiNiSan]

Harley-One, on Jul 18 2010, 03:44 AM, said:

With deadly enemies surrounding us like an inescapable C-clamp, how we seems to insinuate that our once upon a time comrade and brother in arm is an aggressor when what they are doing, essentially, is no more but what we are doing -- namely attempting to reunify the country -- is starting to look, smell, and sound very very double standard. It's no wonder we don't have any frikends...

How did we "insinuate" the allegation that NK is the aggressor? Please elaborate.

[Sampanviking]

If you mean the DPRK, I am sure that they realise that it is their allies that put the block on the UN Resolution being anything more than a meaningless soundbite.

If you are referring to China saying that North Korea was the aggressor in 1950, then what of it? China is right is to warn Pyongyang not to initiate hostilities and given that the PRC is making significant progress in dealing with its own unification issue using economic and diplomatic means, it speaks with real authority.