[Renmin]

Hi every one. I have been working on a article on the Tibet riots. However, the school news says I need more sources in the first two paragraphs.
Here is my article

With the recent uprisings in Tibet, there are many things the media has revealed, including protestors with sad and beaten faces, Chinese police vehicles, and insurgents being arrested. However, there is even more that the media has concealed: videos and pictures all over the Chinese web show firefighters being beaten, innocent pedestrians being attacked on the streets, ambulances rushing down the street with the extremists? victims. Though such violent pictures exist, our media hasn?t shown these images to the American people. Instead, its goal is to dramatize the situation as much as possible and once again, create an anti-Chinese atmosphere. Since our media cannot find images of Chinese police brutality, they substitute it with pictures showing the Indian and Nepali police beating protestors with sticks, claiming the photographs to represent Tibet. On the contrary, the Chinese police have done nothing more than shoot tear gas and spray water on the protesters.
The Dalai Lama disagrees, ?They simply rely on using force in order to simulate peace, a peace brought by force using a rule of terror.? In reality, these soldiers are nothing more than the Chinese Special Police, tasked with riot control, armed with tear gas launchers and shields, while the tanks are nothing more than armored personnel carriers equipped with water cannons. According to a news coverage on CCTV, 24 innocent civilians were burned or stabbed to death in the riots. 56 cars were damaged or burned. Scores of the special police were fatally injured. Rioters have set fire to over 300 sites, and burned down over 200 residential houses and shops. While it is probable that many more died, it is absolutely clear that no Tibetan protestor was injured because of police restraint. A Tibetan resident says, ?My heart is very heavy. A small group of secessionists has unleashed great violence on Lhasa. They've destroyed our happy life. We can't go to work. Our children can't go to school.?
The media has repeatedly presented biased quotes, like those by the Dalai Lama and Nancy Pelosi, as concrete truth. Pelosi says, ?If freedom-loving people throughout the world do not speak out against China's oppression in China and Tibet, we have lost all moral authority to speak on behalf of human rights anywhere in the world.? However, the word ?oppression? is a fallacy since there is no execution marshal law or police brutality in Tibet. Yin Yungong, from the Chinese Academy of Social Science, exclaims, ?Mobsters assaulted innocent civilians, causing so many Hans and Tibetans injured and five young saleswomen burnt to death. However, I've never seen any western media reporting such inhumane actions by the rioters. Is this what they call human rights or justices?? When Chinese police are attacked or killed, they are regarded as exaggerations by the Chinese government, even though logically they would be the rebels? first targets. The media skews the rioters? rather ?negative? attributes to make them seem insignificant or untrue. Are the lives of the Chinese Police worthless? Obviously, maintaining law and order has become a human rights abuse. The patterns are too clear?the West lies, and America lies!


They want more data, and quotes along with proof that media distorts china image and they want more proof of the nepal scam. They are really being rediculous.
I need more for the first two paragraghs but I am a bit stuck

[Player 0]

That's to be expected, i'm sure many threads have been started around this subject and have been posted with things like the photographic evidence of media manipulation, as i don't have the links on me or any particular research material, it's best you try and look for those threads for now.

Well actually i just remember some good places to find Tibet related articles.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8697

Here's an article specifically about the media manipulation, with all the info you'll need about the Indian and Nepalese police.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8673

More images about the grand geostrategic game around Tibet and rebuttals against more western fabrications and insinuations.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8731

An article critical of western demonstrations and the feelings of the Tibetans living in Tibet.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8661

Here's a link to the Tibetan riots documentary as sponsered by a western source.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8693

More video footage of the Lhasa riots.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8691

Info about the actions of the Tibetan youth league.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8462

An article about what the CIA's role in supporting Tibet's independence is.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=84420

A much more detailed article about CIA involvement in Tibet, focusing on the manipulation of American perception on the issue.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8635

Another article on the biased reporting of western journalists.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=8656

Another CIA article about their attempts to sabotage the olympics.


That's pretty all the articles i could find with info on Tibet, be sure to tell people that Globalresearch is a Canadian NGO, they can't accuse it of being anything but a left leaning source, but for most people this will be enough to dismiss it i'm sure. I don't know any other good sources to get information about these issues, but i'm sure the other members will be glad to provide you with such.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...&regionId=9
Here's the Asia section of GR if you want to try and find more articles yourself.

[IchiNiSan]

Posted in the thread The Tibet Myth a list of Non-Chinese sourced articles from a variety of sources about Tibet. Here, take a look:

Quote

Decided to compile a reference database (some already posted in this site) of regarding the Tibet issue. Here are some links:

Tibet, China and the United States: Reflections on the Tibet Question.
- Well-researched essay

The Tibetan Rebellion of 1959 and China’s Changing Relations with India and the
Soviet Union
- Harvard essay

Tibet: "Not You! You!!!"
- Addressed distorted Western media reporting

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
- The Tibet Myth researched

Myth and Reality: Tibet's isolation and unique religious practices have made it the focus of many Western myths.
- The Tibet Myth researched

Is the CIA behind the China-bashing Olympics protests?
- Analysis of real causes of recent unrests

The Tibet Card
- CIA/NED connections exposed

Tibet: The Roles of the CIA and the National Endowment for Democracy
- CIA/NED connections exposed

"Democratic Imperialism": Tibet, China, and the National Endowment for Democracy
- CIA/NED connections exposed

From the “Tiananmen Massacre” to the "Lhasa Protests”
- What political media reporting could cause

India wakes to a Tibetan headache
- Indian article to the Tibet issue

Tibet through Chinese eyes
- Addressing the Chinese

Using Tibet to settle scores with Chinaviewpoints
- Influences from certain powers

Crocodile tears over China's role in Tibet
- Asian view on the Tibet issue

Behind Dalai Lama's holy cloak
- Australian article about the Dailai Lama

Tibet and the trouble with unassailable national myths
- Summing up international missing information

The Dalai Lama should quit his Hollywood approach’
- Opinion of a former Free Tibet activist on the Dalai Lama

Chinese Netizens versus Western Media
- Why Chinese people will have a difficult time believing in Western media

The politics of Tibet: a 2007 reality check
- Answers why China & Dalai Lama can not agree on what kind of autonomy

Why Olympics are Tibet's best shot
- But then an Irish report show why Westerners don't understand why the gap

Tibet, China, and the west: empires of the mind
- Kenyan historical analysis on the Tibet case

Tibet: the West can use the Olympics as a weapon against Beijing
- Tibet/Olympics used as political weapons

Washington diary: China's crisis
- Why a Free tbet will never be established

Is the CIA behind the China-bashing Olympics protests?
- CIA/NED connections exposed

Tibet-Krise: kein richtiger Anlass f?r eine Unterst?tzung
- German criticizing bias reporting

[Sampanviking]

Given the number and quality of the links being provided, I have Pinned this Topic as I think we will all benefit from having these ref links close to hand.

Thank you to Player and IchiNiSan. If anyone has similar links please add them here.

[Player 0]

http://www.internati...p?parentid=2732

Sorry to revive an old thread, but since we're using this as a resource for info on Tibet, here's a link that i think is very interesting, it can help in debates and it is from a western source, that plus it is about a debate between the Chinese side and the western side from a source not connected to the CCP.

How Repressive Is the Chinese Government in Tibet?
Scholar tells skeptical audience that claims by Tibetan exiles of Chinese cultural discrimination are greatly exaggerated.

By Leslie Evans



Barry Sautman, Associate Professor of Social Science at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, spoke at UCLA December 2 to defend the thesis that claims of cultural repression against Tibetans by the Han Chinese are greatly exaggerated by Tibetan exiles in India and by the liberal Western press. His talk was met with some skepticism from discussant Nancy Levine (Anthropology, UCLA) and by some members of the audience, but he presented a wide range of data to support his view. The talk was sponsored by the Center for Chinese Studies.


Sautman chose to focus his presentation on a refutation of the claims made by some Tibetan exiles that the Chinese are pursuing a policy of "cultural genocide" in Tibet. Levine suggested that this was a bit of a straw man and that most exiles are concerned more with issues of lagging development. On specific issues Sautman made the following case.

Rival Views on Tibetan Sovereignty

The Chinese government and the Tibetan exiles in India, led by the Dalai Lama, have diametrically opposed views of the rights of Tibetans to independence. The Chinese claim that Tibet was a Chinese province for eight centuries and that the Dalai Lama has forfeited his spiritual and temporal leadership because he is a separatist. The Tibetans in exile call Tibet a colony of China. This view, Sautman said, "Is widely accepted in the West. It has resonance in the West in the post-Holocaust period." In contrast, he argued, "The problems of Tibetans are typical of minorities in the era of large modern states."

It is true, he said, that there have been significant inroads of Chinese culture into Tibet since the forcible takeover in 1959, but there has been an even greater influx of Western culture. "By not defining cultural genocide the Tibetan exiles can label any changes from 1959 as cultural genocide, although many of these changes could be expected to have occurred without the issue of cultural genocide arising."

The most common specific charges raised by Tibetan exiles, Sautman said, "point to Han immigration plus restrictive birth policies. In fact the state sponsored transfer to Tibet is on a small scale. From 1994 to 2001 the PRC organized only a few thousand people to go to Tibet as cadres. Most serve only 3 years and then return to China. Those who move on their own to the Tibet Autonomous Region usually return to China in a few years. They come for a while, find the cities of Tibet too expensive, and then return to China. Some of the 72,000 Chinese who maintain their hukou [household registration] in Tibet don't really live there. Pensions are higher if your household is registered in Tibet. These facts are supported by Australian and U.S. demographers. Claims of ethnic swamping in Tibet are misleading."

Chinese Policies on Tibetan Birth Rates

The Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR), Soutman said, "encourages Tibetans to limit their families to 3 children. The local government townships have the power to impose small fines for more than 3 children. One study showed that in 3 of 4 studied townships no fine was imposed on a birth issue and only very small fines in the fourth. Tibetan families in Tibet average 3.8 children, larger than Tibetan families in India. Han families with more than one child face much harsher penalties. In 1990 Tibetans were 95% of the Tibetan population. There has been no dramatic change in the region's ethnic balance."

Exiles also claim that birth policies are repressive against Tibetans in regions of China proper where they are significant minorities, such as in Qinghai and Gansu. "This is not sustained by available statistics," Sautman insisted. "The percent of Tibetans in Qinghai has shown no significant change from 1950 to 2000. Restriction on family size is harsher for the majority than for the minority and the effects have not changed the percent of Tibetans in the Qinghai population. This is hardly cultural genocide."

?migr?s complain of restrictions on the minimum age of monks and nuns and on affiliation with the Dalai Lama. Sautman countered by saying that China claims there are more than 2,000 Tibetan Buddhist monasteries. "I have visited many of these and they are all active religious communities. The Chinese government in the remote far west actually encourages people to join monasteries to have people to take care of ethnic relics."

Sautman said that there is now 1 monk or nun for every 35 Tibetans, "the highest of any Buddhist country in the world, and much higher than the relation of ministers and priests to parishioners in any Christian country in the world, where the ratio is often 1 to 1,000. Chinese law says you have to be 18 to become a monk, but in practice there are often much younger monks."

Status of the Tibetan Language

Sautman also sought to rebut charges by Tibetan exiles that the Tibetan language is devalued and being replaced by Chinese. "92-94% of ethnic Tibetans speak Tibetan. The only exception is places in Qinghai and Amdo where the Tibetan population is very small compared with the broader population. Instruction in primary school is pretty universally in Tibetan. Chinese is bilingual from secondary school onward. All middle schools in the TAR also teach Tibetan. In Lhasa there are about equal time given to Chinese, Tibetan, and English." In contrast, Soutman said, "Tibetan exile leaders in India used English as the sole language until 1994 and only became bilingual in 1994. Schools in Tibet promote the Tibetan language more than Indian schools do in ethnic Tibetan areas--in Ladakh, India, instruction is in Urdu, with a high dropout rate from Tibetans, but India is never accused of cultural genocide against Tibetans."

There is an upsurge of the performing arts, poetry and painting by Tibetans, Sautman told the audience. "The exile leaders claim that the Chinese officials suppress Tibetan themes. In exile the Tibetan arts often introduce non-Tibetan themes, but there is no accusation of cultural genocide. Vices such as prostitution are not unique to Tibet under Chinese rule but are common throughout Buddhist lands. There are few aspects of Chinese culture in Tibet, but there are many aspects of Western culture, such as jeans, disco music, etc. The exile Tibetans do not condemn the growth of Western influence at the expense of traditional Tibetan culture."

A Discussant Demurs

Discussant Nancy Levine said it was her opinion that cultural genocide was not a central focus of exile literature. "The discussion seems to focus on social and economic marginalization. The term is problematic." She conceded that Sautman's paper contained "some strong evidence," but said he cited dubious sources as well.

"You criticize the government in exile's position that a fifth of the population was eliminated by purges from the 1959 and 1979. It appears that there was a powerful impact of the Great Leap Forward. Some areas such as the Tibetan areas of Sichuan lost as much as half of their Tibetan population during the Great Leap Forward. There were serious population losses. It should not be simply denied. It is true that the Tibetan population since the 1960s has been growing rapidly and that birth control has been fairly loose for Tibetans. The basis for fines varies sharply. The one study you site at Lhasa cannot be generalized."

On Tibetan Buddhism, she said, "There were 10,000 monks in 1959, and while there are many today, it is a radical decline from then, plus a radical discontinuity in religious training of monks. In 2000 Kirti [Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Sichuan province] was dissolved, with 2,000 monks. The practice of Buddhism is seriously constrained. Every major leader of Tibetan Buddhism except the Panchen Lama is in exile today, not only the Dalai Lama."

Levine scored Sautman for relying too much on Chinese journalistic sources. "You use a Xinhua news source to claim that there are 300 more Tibetan religious institutions today than in 1959. I have been misquoted by Xinhua and this is not a reliable figure. You do have some strong data, but you should distinguish it better from some more questionable sources that you also use."

Barry Sautman responded on several fronts. On claimed declines in Tibetan population, he cited articles in the Columbia Journal of Asian Law and by an Australian Chinese demographer in Asian Ethnicity in 2000. "What I think these articles show is that there is no evidence of significant population losses over the whole period from the 1950s to the present. There are some losses during he Great Leap Forward but these were less in Tibetan areas than in other parts of China. Where these were serious were in Sichuan and Qinghai, but even there not as serious in the Han areas of China. There are no bases at all for the figures used regularly by the exile groups. They use the figure of 1.2 million Tibetans dying from the 1950s to the 1970s, but no source for this is given. As a lawyer I give no credence to statistics for which there is no data, no visible basis."

Sautman conceded Levine's point that claims of cultural genocide are not prominent in Tibetan exile literature, "But pushing the button of genocide has a bigger impact than pushing the button of underdevelopment." He denied that either the local or national Chinese government discriminates against Tibetans: "My finding is that discrimination is popular, but it comes from Han prejudice. The state in Tibetan areas does not involve itself in acts of discrimination. In part this is because many of the leaders in the ethnic minority areas are from the ethnic minority."




Center for Chinese Studies

Date Posted: 12/4/2002

[Ruriko Ikusawa]

Hi, I'm facing a similar situation. I am facing a couple of people who support Xinjiang Secessionism, and I need some sources that detail the help Beijing has given to Xinjiang. Thanks.

[Roger604]

Because it is just a big desert with some oases, Xinjiang has historically very very poor. Before Han Chinese began to develop the region, the Uighurs could only live a nomadic life or grow / pick cotton i.e.) subsistence farming in a harsh desert environment. Of course, that is a miserable life -- an extremely low level of development.

Since the founding of the PRC, the central government in Beijing has been developing the region. This trend has accelerated as China's economy grew stronger. Now Xinjiang is at a point where it has one city -- the provincial capital -- built entirely out of the money that Beijing has invested in the region. Urumqi is a shiny new city with a large commercial district where oil, mining and other businesses have their headquarters.

This development has also impacted the traditional way of life of the Uighurs. On the one hand, health care, sanitation, electricity, roads, education, etc. has improved tremendously, raising the living standards of the Uighurs. On the other hand, because the development is driven from Beijing, the businesses are Chinese-speaking and Urumqi is mostly Chinese speaking. For Uighurs that do not speak Chinese at all, they do not fully benefit from the development.

Instead, for these Uighurs, they went from very poor subsistence farmers to urban poor. But now that they see how some Han Chinese have enormous wealth and lavish lifestyles, they get angry and jealous. If they had stayed in the countryside, they would never see these things and wouldn't know any better!

Beijing has tried to address this problem by giving preference to Uighurs who can speak Chinese and function in a Chinese-speaking society. For example, Uighurs get extra points on examinations based on minority status. A fixed percentage of government posts in Xinjiang are reserved for Uighurs. Many Uighurs have benefited from this policy and have integrated very well into a Han Chinese dominated culture such as Urumqi.

However, some Uighurs see this influx of Han Chinese culture as an invasion into their land. They are opposed to the government. Although theoretically there may be secularists who are opposed to Beijing. In reality this resistance to Beijing is found primarily among Uighurs who strictly observe Islam. Islam sees all that is "non-Islam" as the enemy that must be relentlessly destroyed. Guess how "non-Islamic" the CCP is?




But aside from arguments about what Beijing has done to develop Xinjiang, the most direct response to Xinjiang separatists is that China is a powerful state that can militarily defeat any force that threatens its territorial integrity. Any government that supports Xinjiang separatists will be deemed an enemy of China. The PLA is armed with advanced mobile ICBM with MIRV (each warhead about 300kT) and advanced SLBM with MIRV.

[Sampanviking]

From Xinhua, the full transcript of an interview of Zhu Weiqun, vice minister of the United Front Work Department of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee by Germany's Focus Magazine

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/...nt_12252165.htm

[wdl76]

Ruriko Ikusawa, on Jul 15 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

Hi, I'm facing a similar situation. I am facing a couple of people who support Xinjiang Secessionism, and I need some sources that detail the help Beijing has given to Xinjiang. Thanks.

Probaly the easiest way to rebuff any argument in favour of Xinjian seccesionism would be a comparison between native vs settler histories around the world.

Australian Aborigines
(You can refer to native land title cases as well I guess)
American Indians
South American Indian vs people of Portuguese and spanish descent (e.g. Brasil)
Some African state and the impact of white settlers/colonialist e.g. Zimbabwe, South Africa etc

Plus argue of the benefits that ethnic minorities enjoys .. preferential treatment in education, family planning etc - compare inversely against Malaysian bumiputera policy.

Finally ask for evidence of discrimination and ethnic culture represssion of the minorities in China.


Let me know if you need any details and I will try to help

Thanks

[Roger604]

Actually that's not true at all. Han Chinese were in modern day Xinjiang before the Uighurs. That area was settled by Han Chinese during the Han dynasty because the silk road goes through there. Later on the Han Chinese were forced out by nomadic tribes.

The Uighurs were originally from western outer Mongolia. They went to Xinjiang later. The Han Chinese ARE indigenous to Xinjiang.

[Sampanviking]

Do read this article from ATOL about Tibetans living in Beijing (and other parts of Eastern China). Although the authoress is clearly one of the Bang a Bangle for the Dalai Lama brigade, even she is unable to hide some fundamental truths about the reality of life for modern Tibetans, that most Free Tibet campaigners would find most unpalatable.

http://www.atimes.co...a/LA23Ad01.html